[Pharo-project] New to PHP 5.4: Traits
stephane.ducasse at inria.fr
Mon Nov 22 09:28:24 CET 2010
>> On 21 Nov 2010, at 21:47, jaayer wrote:
>>> Excellent that other, lesser languages like PHP, Perl 6 and Scala have already adopted and standardized Traits while the reactionaries in the Smalltalk community still resist doing the same?
>> Ignoring all the sarcasm in that comment:
>> I don't see any form of standardization here. I am not aware that any of the other existing PHP implementations has picked up Traits so far.
> PHP has no standard; the implementation is the standard, and Traits are being added to the implementation, hence, "standardization." My point remains; other languages are or have already adopted Traits while the Smalltalk community, from which the concept sprang, continues to drag its heels after nearly a decade since their introduction.
>> And well, it is about 3 years from the first implementation to a first release in an official alpha version of PHP. There is still a loooong way to go...
> No, there isn't, at least not compared with the rate of Smalltalk's adoption of Traits. Face it. There are just too many Smalltalkers who seem to think the language is a complete revelation that no mortal has the right to amend. Other languages can grow to accommodate new features; Smalltalk, which went through a number major revisions in the 70s at PARC, remains frozen in the amber of 1980.
You are somehow right :).
Now some points if you want to help:
- I would love to have more support for traits in pharo
- using them
- improving tool support
- revisiting their implementation: this is on my todo since andreas (with a certain marketing effect) "cleaned"
the version of squeak.
- one question there is can we make traits pluggable on top of the core and does it make sense.
- we want other features like modules but but but but but
but but but but we want to have the time to work and try out ideas (this is 8 years - yes I'm slow that we
started with classboxes - and classboxes does not look like the solution)
- now the first step in that direction that we started in 2002 (but people did not understand it :))
was to clean all the smalltalk reference
- now we are working on making sure that we can have multiple systemDictionaries side by side
it will support not only module design exploration but
- OOPAL bootstrap
- atomic loading (like in VW)
- Moose analysis (ie Moose/pharo1.1 should be able to analyse Moose/pharo1.3 unstable)
- remote debugging/development
Now my problem is time.
So if people want to help please contact us and we could have a lot of fun.
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