[Pharo-project] Let's get rid of Core vs. Full

Tudor Girba tudor.girba at gmail.com
Mon Apr 4 10:23:24 CEST 2011


Hi,

I fully agree with Marcus.

Cheers,
Doru


On 4 Apr 2011, at 09:18, Igor Stasenko wrote:

> On 3 April 2011 19:31, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker at inria.fr> wrote:
>> Hi,
>> 
>> So finally I have to admit that I am defeated: The way we do the Core vs. Full release does not work.
>> 
>> 1) We don't develop the system using the tools that we tell people to use.
>>                -> bugs don't get fixed
>>                -> there is no pressure on improving the tools
>>                -> we can't use the advanced tools while developing the Core.
>> 
>> 2) We integrate *far* too late.
>>                -> merging in the tools of Dev a week before the big release *will* fail, as they are not tested.
>> 
>> 3) As we use Core for Development of Core, it's not a Core. It contains all needed tools, just simplified versions.
>>                -> People even expect to be able to shrink it more, which in turn we do not test.
>> 
>> 4) Refactoring are only applied to the Core, not to the whole code base. Look at the Sound or Morph Examples...
>>     getting them fixed for the release if they are not touched for a year is nearly impossible.
>> 
>> 5) Fixing something in the Core is fast. We move *extremely* fast. Getting something fixed for Full can be very difficult.
>>     e.g. repositories need to be changed (for a temporary fork), build scripts edited.. it's so hard that it is done far too late.
>> 
>> 6) We can not do a release and be done. Release drag over weeks, making announcments (and publicity) impossible.
>> 
>> The build server helps a little bitwith some of the problems, but not much... especially as the full build of unstable is mostly
>> not working.
>> 
>> So I vote for abandoning Core vs. Dev for 1.3.
>> 
> 
> Marcus, i think that full or 'dev' images just need to have a
> configurations which people could load on top of core image.
> The responsibility of core team is to define what is included in those
> configurations on next release and
> making sure that they can be loaded in latest core images.
> 
> But don't mix 'can be loaded' with 'works without bugs' :) This is
> another story. This is where community has to be involved and people
> who interested in
> using full image(s) need to help with it.
> Otherwise, if nobody using it, then why wasting an effort with
> maintaining and fixing such a large codebase?
> 
> I know it by myself, that bugs are discovered and fixed only when you
> using some tool(s). But if something lies there unattended, then it
> will definitely
> break at some point, and it is not really matters how hard you try to
> keep backwards compatibility or making sure all tests are green.
> 
>>        Marcus
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Marcus Denker  -- http://www.marcusdenker.de
>> INRIA Lille -- Nord Europe. Team RMoD.
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Best regards,
> Igor Stasenko AKA sig.
> 

--
www.tudorgirba.com

"Every thing should have the right to be different."






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