[Pharo-project] A new GUI visual designer

Norbert Hartl norbert at hartl.name
Sun Feb 13 12:49:32 CET 2011

On 12.02.2011, at 19:13, Esteban Lorenzano wrote:

> No, I don't believe anything except smalltalk is bad. Just XML. I worked with Java, C# and a lot of XML to know that. 
> Don't be confused... I'm not talking against XML alternatives because of microsoft or anything, I have serious technical complains against it. Also, XUL is not microsoft's and I'm opposing to it as strongly as XAML (but Seaside-XUL is cool, he).
Esteban, it doesn't matter to me _why_ you are arguing like you do. I'm interested in hearing _what_ you have to say. Stating that you have a lot of experience (I have no doubt about it) and that you have good reasons does not make me believe/being convinced in any way. Just tell some of your good reasons so I can get anything from it.

> Said so... i'm not against build an XAML importer or so, but I think you'll find a lot of several issues to solve, and it will maybe impossible :)

> <Spanish here> (yeah... bad joke)
> Además... no lo defiendo porque crea que Smalltalk es mejor siempre, solo que en este caso, es mucho mejor que usar XML. 
> Trabajo en la industria desde hace 18 años y solo hace 4 con Smalltalk, y además todavía hoy trabajo haciendo consultoría de arquitectura de proyectos hechos en Java o C#... se perfectamente de que estoy hablando... no estoy en contra ni de Oracle ni de Microsoft... simplemente, creo que usar XML es una mala alternativa, no te vayas por las ramas, plis :)
> </Spanish here>
Well, my understanding of this is probably of the level of reading a french text :)


> Cheers,
> Esteban
> El 12/02/2011, a las 2:59p.m., nullPointer escribió:
>> Create the UI with plain Smalltalk code have problems... my UIBuilder use
>> that system and have limitations for limit of lityerals in a spec method,
>> and other problems.
>> Another alternative is the VW or Smalltalk/X mechanism, no readable, no
>> updatable; only could be modified for the same designer routine.
>> XAML is a standard (or XUL). Allow define the UI, but too allow define
>> bindings, templates, commands etc for work with the
>> controller/presenter/viewmodel. For do the same in any language, with plain
>> code, you need much more code lines. A example with only a textbox and a
>> label don´t works. Try build a view with three grids, many fields, bindings,
>> events, tranmsformations, styles... and then compare the number of code
>> lines from a way and another. And compare too the readable result...!!!
>> And is possible create it with external designers; a Smalltalk designer is
>> not needed. Only a XAML reader-builder is needed, and a set of widgets for
>> work of that way.
>> Ahhhhh! I see the problem!!!. Now I see. It´s a Microsoft product, then
>> anyway is bad.
>> Los programadores de Smalltalk, somos cangrejos ermitaños. Estamos tan
>> acostumbrados a pensar que somos lo mejor y tenemos la mejor herramienta que
>> nos hemos quedado anquilosados. Estoy hasta las pelotas de esta mentalidad.
>> Lo digo en castellano porque no sé expresarlo en inglés.
>> Regards.
>> -- 
>> View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/A-new-GUI-visual-designer-tp3067111p3302962.html
>> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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