[Pharo-project] SqueakSource down... again

Miguel Cobá miguel.coba at gmail.com
Mon Feb 21 19:38:01 CET 2011


El lun, 21-02-2011 a las 10:28 -0800, Steven Baker escribió:
> FWIW, Git is a very generic system. There's no reason we couldn't
> write a storage adapter for MC that puts the repo in Git. Git only
> knows about objects, and the versions thereof. We could easily have
> Monticello on top of git.
> 
> I'm not sure I think it's a good solution, but it sounds like
> something fun to hack on, if someone wants to join me. (I'm not doing
> a project I only peripherally care about all by my lonesome.)

But they work very differently. Git is a complete different beast that
MC is. They have distinct paradigms in how to deal with data in the
repo. They have in common that are distributed VCS but that is all. In
order to use git to its full potential (cheap branching, a
branch-per-feature development workflow, easy forking, security
auditable history, fast merging) it would be necessary to completly
forget about MC and to start from zero with a solution for smalltalk but
using git model/workflow in mind. A simple adaptor won't be using
smalltalk capabilities nor Git ones to its full potential and will not
get enough traction to survive.

Cheers
> 
> -Steven
> 
> On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 10:25 AM, Adrian Lienhard <adi at netstyle.ch> wrote:
> > Hi Esteban,
> >
> > I look forward to testing it :)
> >
> > BTW, SqueakSource is not the problem for me (we have a HTTP repository). The MC speed is what bothers us most... I just responded in this thread since the idea was mentioned by Camillo. I know that other people are more attached to the "Smalltalk way" of doing things and prefer staying with MC, but I think we should seriously consider alternatives (as you apparently already do). I believe that closing the gap between the file-based languages and Smalltalk is possible without giving up too much...
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Adrian
> >
> > On Feb 21, 2011, at 18:52 , Esteban Lorenzano wrote:
> >
> >> Hi,
> >> I'm already working in a file based solution... it will be ready for test next one or two months :)
> >>
> >> There are some advantages I want to point:
> >> - Better for newcomers
> >> - Better for customers who "want to see the sources" (yes, I have some of them, time to time)
> >> - We don't need to take care about infrastructure anymore, just use one already existing (like Github)
> >> - Increases Pharo visibility in the web (this is really important, IMHO)
> >> - "Hybrid" projects (with external files) like VM, for instance, and many Seaside projects, can have just one source point (so tags, etc. has no need to be manually matched with monticello repository).
> >> - the solution I'm building (not just me, this is with a friend of mine who does not participate in the list) can work together with monticello, so you can have your sources "frozen" in the disk (and commit to git), and create a monticello version if you need it :)
> >> - We will use coral source format to keep files in disk, so they will be more readable than current file-out format (well, this can take a little more than two months, because I'm still understanding it)
> >>
> >> On the disadvantages...
> >> - Most important (because of the "smalltalk culture", mostly) is the fact we loose the "all in smalltalk" thing...but that's  not an issue IMHO. Pharo community is a lot more open than others, and we already are using some non-smalltalk tools (like hudson for building and google for tracking)
> >> - Yes, merging, etc. can be harder, but I think using a nice file format can lower this impact (and we are still supporting image-to/from-file merging).
> >>
> >> A couple of years ago some guys released SqueakSVN, as an alternative, but it failed to become an option... I think because SVN was already old at that time, and also because installation, etc. was hard, and also because it was an "incomplete" work, I think. Anyway... I'm doing this stuff because I need it, and I hope some others will consider it useful :)
> >> So... well... stay in touch ;)
> >>
> >> cheers,
> >> Esteban
> >>
> >> pd: yes... I know... I'm currently handling more projects than I can do... and that delays all my projects... but I'm doing my best, and any help is welcome :)
> >>
> >> El 21/02/2011, a las 1:55p.m., Guillermo Polito escribió:
> >>
> >>> I don't know if we have to change to another kind of service.  But we MUST have alternatives.
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 1:49 PM, Igor Stasenko <siguctua at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> Come on. We are talking about quality of service here, or about
> >>> changing the service?
> >>> I don't think that after migrating to (put your favorite here), we
> >>> won't have any new problems. And then same, lack of people who can
> >>> address them.
> >>>
> >>> On 21 February 2011 17:39, Adrian Lienhard <adi at netstyle.ch> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> On Feb 21, 2011, at 17:22 , Camillo Bruni wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> how about a file based system and git?
> >>>>
> >>>> yea, just discussed this very idea an hour ago...
> >>>>
> >>>> The simplest thing that could work:
> >>>> - Write out changes to files (for each method and class)
> >>>> - Use git to commit, push, pull, merge, etc.
> >>>> - After git actions, load changed files and compile
> >>>>
> >>>> Advantage:
> >>>> - can reuse good existing tools and infrastructure: git, github, etc.
> >>>> - probably faster than MC + SqueakSource
> >>>> - lower entry barrier for new people
> >>>>
> >>>> Disadvantage:
> >>>> - source control tools not integrated anymore
> >>>> - resolving merge conflicts may be tedious
> >>>> - we don't have our own solution for everything anymore ;)
> >>>>
> >>>> Adrian
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On 2011-02-21, at 16:48, Fabrizio Perin wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Well more or less every 10 days i need to restart it. This discussion happen
> >>>>>> already in different threads but again the problems are:
> >>>>>> 1- The machine hosting squeaksource is an old mac. Maybe on a new machine
> >>>>>> running linux it could be better.
> >>>>>> 2- SqueakSource is running in a squeakimage on a SqueakVM 3.9 (if i'm not
> >>>>>> wrong - anyway is very old stuff) and as far as i get, a porting to a more
> >>>>>> recent environment (let say a pharo 1.3 on a cog vm) will mean to rewrite
> >>>>>> entirely squaeksource.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Now, this is a well know problem and a lot of people is already moving to
> >>>>>> solve it (surely you can find lots of email from Stephan talking about
> >>>>>> this). I'm trying to keep the system alive.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Cheers,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Fabrizio
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 2011/2/21 Hernán Morales Durand <hernan.morales at gmail.com>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>>>> do nothing, just wait and see until SqueakSource turns completely unusable.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I don't know if people won't noticed or don't want to admit it, but
> >>>>>>> SqueakSource is down very often lately..
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> 2011/2/21 Fabrizio Perin <fabrizio.perin at gmail.com>:
> >>>>>>>> SqueakSource is up and running. I did restart it at 15:55 GTM+1 so i
> >>>>>>> don't
> >>>>>>>> know how i can help you.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> 2011/2/21 Hernán Morales Durand <hernan.morales at gmail.com>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> SqueakSource is down again. I'm tired of this situation, there is any
> >>>>>>>>> alternative "free" repository?
> >>>>>>>>> Cheers,
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>> Hernán Morales
> >>>>>>>>> Information Technology Manager,
> >>>>>>>>> Institute of Veterinary Genetics.
> >>>>>>>>> National Scientific and Technical Research Council (CONICET).
> >>>>>>>>> La Plata (1900), Buenos Aires, Argentina.
> >>>>>>>>> Telephone: +54 (0221) 421-1799.
> >>>>>>>>> Internal: 422
> >>>>>>>>> Fax: 425-7980 or 421-1799.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Best regards,
> >>> Igor Stasenko AKA sig.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> 

-- 
Miguel Cobá
http://twitter.com/MiguelCobaMtz
http://miguel.leugim.com.mx







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