[Pharo-project] Popularity of Smalltalk in Software Industry
siguctua at gmail.com
Fri May 6 17:31:15 CEST 2011
On 6 May 2011 17:11, Miguel Cobá <miguel.coba at gmail.com> wrote:
> El vie, 06-05-2011 a las 12:57 +0200, Stefan Marr escribió:
>> Sorry for the flam below. I didn't have the time and energy to rewrite it.
>> >>> Now for the documentation when did you send an help documentation for any part of the system?
>> >>> Or a bug fix?
>> >>> I find quite funny that people always talk but few are doing. We welcome comments/examples help.
>> No, I report things on the mailing list, and I complain here and there about the narrow-mindedness of Smalltalk-evangelists.
>> And when it comes to documentation, I document that RoarVM you might have heard of. If that is not interesting for you, sorry, we just don't share the same interests.
>> >> No need to get into a cat-fight here :)
>> > No this is not my point. But what do people really do to help?
>> Stef, if you haven't noticed: I don't care about Smalltalk, and I don't care about Pharo, or any other language out there in particular. I don't share your vision, I have other goals in life.
> So what are you doing here, the less the noise the best for everyone
> else. You don't contribute, you only criticize, and then you said you
> don't care, the we don't care about your "opinion". You can keep it for
>> The only thing I do here is to point out the obvious (at least from my narrow-minded perspective).
>> > If this is just to spit out class comment on html I do not call that a documentation.
>> > Now we can take the book contents and generate html
>> > We have 350 pages in the first book and the same in the second one.
>> > People are free to join and write one or two chapters.
>> That's what I mean. From my perspective, books about programming languages are a wast of effort.
>> You need a good entry level book, that is all it takes.
>> The rest is great online documentation.
> Umm, or you are very young or completely lost your mind. Internet as we
> know today has a decade at most. The documentation you as happy use now
> didn't existe 20 years ago. But, doesn't a lot of code was written more
> than 20 years ago. How is that possible just with fucking books and
> without google.
> That is BS.
>> Unfortunately, Smalltalkers don't know anything outside the image...
>> I don't know how other people work, but I never look into books when I program. They just don't work.
>> They are slow, outdated and hard to search in.
>> Honestly, I don't understand why books are a priority for you when you want to develop a community.
>> You got a good entry level book, so what is the motivation to write another one?
> Because not everyone is so "smart" as you and we sometimes need to read
> a book in a more directed way that a simple API list and no way to see
> how is used. Also, check the Squeak wiki. Almost useless and nobody
> that is putting new content to it these days. On the other hands, the
> Pharo by example and seaside pier books or the HPI Seaside books are
> doing more for smalltalk than you want to accept.
About wiki: its just points to the fact that documentation is worth
something if its properly organized.
Wiki, if not maintained properly, will become a garbage dump, as anything else.
Books, in this regard is better, because they have to be organized
well, and focused towards educating people
about certain subject, otherwise there is no point to call it 'book'.
And yeah.. in present digital era the meaning of term 'book' is
different. It is no longer relevant in what form it exists:
digital or paper.. But being able to print it on paper media is a
bonus, because people can choose what suits them best.
I must admit, that the last book i read about programming was around
in early 90's.. since then i am mostly reading docs & web.
But for getting started, it is always much easier to follow tutorials
(and good book is a collection of tutorials in fact) with extensive
explanation & examples how things working,
than groking through API and trying to understand how to use it in
order to meet your needs.
> Miguel Cobá
Igor Stasenko AKA sig.
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